Episode 135: Legal Tech Update

0:09 Welcome back to A Record of My Father. Today we're going to be talking about legal tech. A little update on what's going on in the legal tech world. So what's what's going on? What's going on in the legal tech world? Well, we saw 17117 billion walk away day before yesterday. I think another bunch of billion walked away again today. It's it's, it's attributed to Anthropopic. I can't, I can't pronounce the name. Launched a new product called Claude and that's, that's come into the industry and it's, and it's made people look at how simple it is to duplicate a lot of the work that attorneys would do for you.

0:55 And, and, and I and I had like always been thinking and of the mind that accuracy is always an issue. And I would tell you that there's a lot of parallels and what's happening right now with what was happening in the early 90s. When I remember, we had online sources, Lexus was online, Westlaw was online, Kluwer had online and CDs stuff. So they had this stuff that you would put and use. But, but then the Internet came along and then they migrated. And what did the companies do? They, they, they merged with huge information sources that they would do. And I see it now.

1:37 I see the same kind of stuff and the and the, and the big companies that are in very industry specific areas, they went away. They like disclosure was the biggest, you know, £800 gorilla in the industry. That was that we served and they got bought. They got bought by Primark and then they later got bought by Thomson and then they got bought by Thomson Reuters. They merged. So it's been this thing moving forward. And when I was when we were just starting to go online, there were 23 services in the SEC public reference room, all that pulled and copied documents and sent and inside of five years, there were five and we were one of them standing. We killed them all and we or we helped kill them. There's a lot, but it was just amazing and a lot of the new. And I see that like now and I, and I see that this is probably, this is like the first gunshot to see cause a lot of people ask me about it.

2:36 And I started looking at it. I was like, you know, I started thinking about just the ramifications of the things you can do, you know? Well, I think the occupation's gonna go away, the occupation of being a lawyer, because if you think about it, other than a litigator, A litigator will eventually go away. But I think the first 'cause I think about the contracts that I've generated for my business and I went through a warrior to be in the beginning and then got. Burned. Pretty bad, got burned pretty bad. And then I was like, well, why don't I just generate these contracts? And then I have a friend who's a notary, so I'll just pay them to notarize the document and it's like $20. And then it's like, well, then I have a legal document. So I don't really you don't, I don't know unless you're doing the acquisition, I think that I can't really see why I would generate contracts for 1099 workers through a lawyer ever again.

3:29 If you're doing, I was going to say if you're doing contracts for about big risk items, then then you would want, you would want something else in there. If you were doing a contract for a $500 million movie and this person was the lead actor, you, you would you, you would want more, more pay to it. But you can actually copy one online off a lot of public systems that have already been written, so you know. That's what I was using. I said make me a document for a sound mixer, make me a document for director of photography. Change it so that the foreign insurance in Mongolia is applicable to emergency situations.

4:10 Change it so that it is only for the period of the shoot. Change it so the contract is only 30 days. Change the and then it was and then it was done. Oh my gosh, yeah. That's all you have to do. It was free. It was free. I saved myself $6000. It was your. Time and it was you following through the steps. Did you, before you ask those questions, did you go, what are the steps I need to do to have this contract? No, I just said generate a contract, but see. You knew that. You knew what all the key points were that you wanted to argue. You know, I mean, a lot of times you get into things like jurisdiction and all these other silly things about if something goes wrong, this is where you litigate it. And, and, and I understand that there are certain laws in certain states that are favorable to other people. But you know, I guess that what you're doing 99%, I would probably say 99.99% of what you're doing with your low value contracts have low value risk and it's not worth thousands of dollars.

5:12 It's like I look at, I look at what the way that our, my legal spend has gone from when I started at, you know, when we started a company, global securities Information and we had to pay somebody incorporate us. We didn't use a lawyer. We copied documents when we copied SEC articles and bylaws and use them because we knew copying is what attorneys did. And so, and that was when it was paper based and and there was a service that would take what you had and file it and see if it was a OK and all this. And anyway, as time went on there, like, I mean, we went through all the majors. We used, I don't think we ever used a minor law firm, but we used Wilmer.

5:56 I think for a little bit we used who else? I was on the other side of the deal with, with Cravath. I was on another side of a deal with Halen door. We use Brobeck, Pfleger, Halen Door, which are bankrupt now. They actually did our option plan and it was an off the shelf option plan which you could do today and I remember it cost the six grand and you could do it today and it essentially the same thing. The laws change and, and it and people tell you it's dangerous and you're and I guess it's, it's, I don't think it's the same.

6:37 I don't see it being the same as if you're reading a medical like, you know, you're pumping all your, your, your symptoms and then this spits out that you have this, this, this and this and without further testing you wouldn't know. Yeah, web MD was really bad. I think still is for hypochondriacs especially. It's a generalist tool, whereas you can get incredibly specific with language because it's limited. There's no, you know, when you think about language, there's, there's a limited base of information that everybody's working from.

7:18 Whereas in medicine you could have there, there's, there's a, there's 50 things or 100 things you could have, but there's a, there's a million things you, you might be close to being happy because you got the sniffles, You know, I mean, it's, it's. It's. Quite different. It's quite different. It it, it is quite different. So it's like I look for like the downside of using it for inexperienced stuff. And I was, I mean, I was even talking about speeding tickets, You know, Can you imagine the next time you get a speeding ticket instead of going and hiring a lawyer or you get a DWI, whatever you get, go on to to perplexity ChatGPT Claude and say, I'm in this county court, I'm going to this thing.

8:02 I was doing this, I was charged with this. What are the outcomes of this case? Typically? What should I do to mitigate it? And they'll tell you, speak to the prosecutor, talk to this person, take this class, do this, do this, do this. And so that would remove you from paying 5 grand to a lawyer. I mean, so, and, and so I, I just think about that. I'm going like, because a lot of what they do is just, they make a deal or they promise a deal that doesn't ever materialize and then they settle for half of what they originally said. So, you know, it's that kind of stuff, you know there. 'D also be no personal kind of vendetta against their own client, which is something that I have experienced where I don't really trust any lawyer ever now.

8:54 I don't know, it seems. I love lawyers. I don't know, It seems like they, well, always want to screw you. I mean, yeah, that's pretty much how I've gotten I, I. Mean. I think that they're probably the same as doctors, Dennis, everybody else that you're a revenue stream and they're driven to drive revenue. There's behind it. There's a system of ethics that they're supposed to follow to drive the revenue. But some, some stay well within the ethical law because there's a Canon of ethics, their legal ethics. Some are like, I, I want to, I don't want to be in the I don't want to be even close to the line. I want to be in the middle.

9:40 Some people want to be a little the upper end, some people want to be right up against it. Some people going to go, you know, if we step on the other side, what will happen? You know, it's like what happens if you give me a court of order and I don't do it? What happens if I get subpoenaed and I don't show up? What what are the things? Well, it could be this, it could be this, but many times this is what's happened. So now that you have an, an agent that can tell you basically a lot of what the outcomes could be, it it, it changes a lot of things or, and it takes all the information that's out there to tell you what the outcomes can be. And certainly there are other outcomes that could happen. But it really it I really, I really think it changes, not it a little bit of the rule of law, but I think it also changes like what's going to happen in the industry. I see like the big four or Big 5, whatever you want to call them from Thomson Reuters Relics, which is Lexus, Thomson Reuters, Westlaw at Bloomberg Law, Sage, Pearson, Walters, Kluer, those huge publishing information places. I see them getting bought by the gorillas. I see that.

10:53 I see the gorillas that are growing are going to come and say, I want your information and they're going to buy it. And people are going to say they're not keeping up because if they don't own the AI that they're actually using to search on their machine, eventually that company that's licensing them, the AI is going to eat them. They're going to raise the price up enough so they can't make money and they're going to make them go away. I mean, it's the same thing. Sears did this with Stanley. You know, you just you, how many hammers can you produce? 1,000,000 I want 3,000,000 build, build the stuff to make them did it. They did it 3 or 4 five years in a row or 10 or whatever. It was a bunch of years in a row and they came in and said, we want to buy in.

11:36 Here's the price we're willing to pay. And Stanley was like, go to, well, we're not going to do that. They said, OK, we don't want any hammers from you anymore. And they built up 10X. And so if you think about it now they, they have information houses. I think that the way that they will survive is they're talking about partnerships now. But no, they're going to be, and I think it's going to happen in five years. I think you're going to see, and it's going to be big mergers. It's going to be, you know, $25 billion mergers are going to happen in the legal tech community. I think the big guys are going to be eaten by technology companies because technology is going to say this is a vast source of information that is used the world over. They have the biggest collection. I can own it and then I cannot share it. I can make people pay by the drink and I'll make them drink a lot of it.

12:28 And I think that that's like, and it's not like it's not rocket science. It, this is the way industries work when they completely change. And this is, it reminds me of what happened. And you know, when the Internet came around you, you look at look at they, we used to have travel agents. So we went to an office and they would show us brochures of where you're going to go and say, Hey, you're going to see a Hilton. And it looks like, and they show you a picture. And now you can actually go to the room and walk around in the room and you don't need that person or that company. And they used to get a piece of what you did a good piece and the airline's got a piece and they got a piece and everybody got a piece. And that's died. It's gone, you know, and when you think about all the things that changed that if you do, it's, it's going to be adopt or die. And I think that seeing this kind of A, and, and that that was a financial impact on the day before yesterday and today, I think you're going to start to see more and more people. If I was the CEO of one of these companies, one of the big guys, I would be looking to own AI.

13:34 They are trying to build it and they're trying to, they're trying to build something by spending 500 or a billion. When the guy that they're competing with is spending 50 billion. Who do you think's going to win? I mean, think that through because if you were competing with me and I had $10 million to build my sports car and you had 500 bucks, who you think's going to win? Yeah, we're going to look at the monopolization of a lot of industry, I think. It's going to, it's going to get sucked up and it's going to get sucked into AI and it's going to be a division within it. And legal tech is going to be a subset. And I, I, I say five years Max.

14:22 And that's why it's kind of like, because to me, it's sort of like there's a point that was crossed. Once you see, you know, 10% of a company's revenue that, you know, you saw relics, Westlaw, cluer and Sage. I think it's, I don't know if I'm pronouncing Pearson their, their market cap turned back five years in one day, five years, five years of growth one day really. You know, I mean, it's crazy. It's just, it was, it was crazy, you know, and you're like, wow, that's that, that's what kind of shook me. And then I immediately thought about, I have a lot of friends in the legal industry do a lot of things that do service jobs. Now, if you do a service job, if you do things like capture invoicing for attorneys or billable hours, and then you put into the systems to make it work, I'm going to bet that's going to be gone.

15:26 It's going to be a program and you're going to see it. You're going to see it assimilate over time. Speaking of billable systems, Oh my gosh, the systems that I've seen that I've paid invoices on for lawyers are like archaic. It's crazy. I I like when I was looking at the one that it was one of the top law firms that I used, I was like, this is the worst system I've ever seen. Yeah, in my life. It looks like it's from 2002 and it looks like I'm applying to or I'm getting or getting. Yeah, yeah. Basically applying to Community College classes. It looks like a Community College course calendar. It was. Surprising. For an interface, yeah, it's crazy. I did not understand that. Well, what happens is what happens is, is they grab the latest technology, say in 2010 and it's a it's a brand new billing system. And they, and these guys are, they're the cheapest guy on the block and they roll out this new, all these new features and benefits and all those kind of stuff like that. They grow really fast in the industry. They get on a bunch of lawyers desktops. They, they, they're selling, they, they allow the people that buy the systems to save a bunch of money off of what they're currently doing.

16:34 So those people get raises because it's a better system, because it's new technology. It's like a computer today is, you know, what, three times what a computer was four years ago. So I mean, things are growing rapidly and that that transfers that, that, that, that when they keep that system, you got people that are paying for it. They don't want to buy a new one five years from now because they're going to have to start over and they're going to have to pay that huge upfront nut no one's going on. You can do it for $9 a month, you know, or if they do, I mean, I'm, I'm, it's interesting if people are going to come up with a pay as you go model for, you know, log on attach and go. I mean, I'm thinking right now, I can see there's a lot of people out there that do tax.

17:24 There's a huge people who do tax counting, right? Right now I load up all my documents to tax caddy everything. It's online and I trust them because they're nine ways from Sunday protected and then my accountant goes in and figures out my taxes by doing that. I don't understand why a machine could not go in and grab all of those components, those numbers from those documents and my W twos and my 1090 nines and all those things and do my taxes in a second. You just explained TurboTax, but that's. That's TurboTax for like 10.

18:10 See, that's the cheap end of the product. I'm talking about people like me that pay 510 grand a year or people who pay 100 grand or a million. I mean, I remember, you know, 589 years ago, 10 years ago, Thomson Reuters had a, had a system that you as a company like General Motors, if you want to minimize your tax exposure, the best way to do it was to have facilities in this collection of countries. Because if you built your, your engine in these four countries, you would pay the lowest tax rate. And they would say just if everything else was equal. And then the, and then they would throw in all the things it's like, what is the economic size of like the middle wage? What is the, what would it cost for the factory and all this kind of kind of stuff like that.

18:59 So you could figure out then how to do that, But Can you imagine if I could just scan in my stuff, it would OCR it will pull up the numbers, spit out what I owed and go from there. Oh my gosh, that's, that's crazy. That's. That's. Well, that that would, I mean, Kluwer is the head of tax. You know, Thompson's a slow second. Bloomberg's trying to come in there. Lexus has got good tax, but not in that realm of either one of those. But I would say that, you know, and I think these big companies are going to have to take a stake and stick it in one area that's big and profitable for them. And to really go at it with a either go and merge because you're expensive.

19:48 Now, in four years, if every single one of these I I'm unaware if they've developed their own internal artificial intelligence system. I thought, well, there might be they, they're not using one of the four or five that are out there as a back end, because if you're using as a back end, that means you're paying a fee to it, OK. And if you're using something else as a back end, the back end's making the money and the back end, when the back end wants to eat you, it will come out like a lion and it will eat you like you're a rabbit. So you better probably get eaten when you're maybe a Billy goat or maybe a big fat pig, because then you can make more money for your shareholders than have them kill you eventually because you you got to look at that if you have to pay that. And it's his ever growing number. And remember the the people for ChatGPT perplexity, Claude Harvey, all these different companies, they've been putting billions in there to build this.

20:54 They're going to get it back and the way they're going to get it back is they're going to do what Amazon did. They're going to eat everybody's lunch. They're going to own it and then they're going to raise the prices. It's not it's not rocket science on the outside shell, you know, is it here yet? It's on, it's on, it's on your shoulder. It's on your shoulder right there. There's, there's people that are I, I am sure that there are small law firms and small people that like you who typically in a startup, you would have spent thousands of dollars, 10s of thousands of dollars on that stuff that you did, you know, right in 20 different contracts, but not anymore.

21:47 And you're just one person. And I know you're really bright because you went to a really good school. Very, very intelligent. But there's a lot of people out there that look at it that way and go like, well, you know, and they're going to go with the same old thing. This is good enough. And when you start to look at the, the, the, the thing that I see, I see it's like, you know, things are just going to shift. The models are going to shift. Where's, you know, see, I think the research is going to change to instead of how do we research this topic? It's going to be what's the answer? Because all my years in business have been and all my years looking at interfaces for searching SEC filings have been, you're my customer. You need an answer.

22:38 How do you get to the answer? Well, you're looking for articles and bylaws for a company. While you start searching here, you look at this place, this place, this place, this place, this place. Some people would try to do text searches, but if they didn't do 75 different variations of the text search, they'd miss it. You OK, So you would have to search through all those things. Now you can say where are they? Boom. And they pop up right there. And that's that's like bread and butter research. It's gone. And it's not research. It's giving you an answer. And now let's say you're looking for only clauses in those documents. They're already doing that.

23:22 Yeah, I mean, I'm seeing that on perplexity. I'm seeing that and I haven't seen it in Claude because I haven't, I haven't experienced with that. You've experienced with Chad JBT where you're looking for things and you wanted the Mongolia clause and it and it did. It's like think about that. You got that clause or search for. Weaknesses, because it can do that, it can look for weaknesses in the contract, which are is really, really nice. And you start looking at this and this to me is really I and I, and I'm really passionate about the space. And that's, and I know we, we've talked about individual things, we've talked about artificial intelligence, but I never really, I never really shook me until I looked at it and I started to think of the people I know and then go, they're not going to have a job.

24:12 Well, that's kind of like what I'm learning about how, you know, there's one guy that owns all the sound stages in rental equipment for those sound stages. Yeah, in LA. And that's crazy. I don't know that we just let monopolies like this happen. It's time and time again it's proved that capitalism is just the illusion of choices. It's crazy. It really is. Well, I mean you're. All like, Oh well, all these communist countries really upsetting, really bad. I'm like, China built like 15 bridges last week and then now you have people getting their wages garnished in America and dying in poverty. So 15 bridges are dying in poverty.

24:52 I don't know. It seems like communism is a little. Bit better. Well, that's just me there. There's a lot of other things that you could put in there, like China has a mobile execution vehicle. I mean, there's. No, there's no. We have resource for a lot of things you. Can't you know? You think about. Yeah, we have a lot. We we don't. We don't have it to their level. Well, now we kind of have a mobile execution squadron in the travel. State we do, we do, we do have that. That's that's kind of that's. Kind of cool, you know, we got people instead of a van. I think that's a that's a little cooler. I saw it, man. So yeah, different. Anyway, I mean, I look at this and I think like, where where else do they apply? You know, if you do patents.

25:35 Oh, interesting. Think about. Patent law is huge, but it's huge and it's very lucrative. You go over and you want to find out if a patent has ever been issued before on a particular device and they got to search the Patent and Trademark Office. Can you, I mean, you, it, it's a, you could have the whole thing. Yeah, you and, and, and you would know, and you could actually challenge the examiner to say, hey, why is it different? It's going to write you a reason. So you're going to, I mean, I can just see thing after thing after thing, litigation, litigation. I, I, I'm, I'm not because you're going to do the unexpected.

26:20 I think that's the key. And I and I noticed in like product development and stuff like that, it's like, I think that when you can only look at things that have happened before, you won't do anything new. You can build on old, but it's but that's that's a lot more linear than that's why people say think outside the box, because to me it's like that's like you're not, you're not, you're not climbing up the walls of the box and building another box and building another box on top of box. You're actually building a, you know, a star, you know, or you're making a baseball or, you know, something completely different. And, and, and that is the kind of thing that I think is not originality is something that I, I, I, I can't believe it can be copied yet, you know, because it's going to be, it's going to be based upon a set of specific circumstances that a machine can learn.

27:20 They may have 10 million more circumstances than you, but originality? We'll tell you train the model. That's really how it is. That's. What? Well, my, my, my biggest concern is that if I wanted to screw your model, I would. I would target ways to insert false data into its intake. You know what I mean? Because if somebody was telling you that this was the best and the reasoning behind it was number of shares bought when they were bought a management decisions and all this. And you could put in manage the the 50 variables fake. You could.

28:06 It would learn off of that and it would apply that to future instances because you got to figure out that anybody that's thinking about this for good use, there's people thinking about it for fraud. Oh, definitely. You know which my mind goes I. Didn't even think about. Well yeah, the CPT is censored for crimes as of now. Well, I mean I have not tried to say how could I beat the system, but I wouldn't word it that way. I'm sure that there are ways, yeah. There's sidestepping ways to work around it, definitely, yeah. If, if I had if I was at a blackjack table and there's five people sitting there and these are the numbers and things what what is what, what should I play?

28:49 I. Wonder how well it's going to be able to read that in the future. That's a good question. Well, yeah, the numbers, well, if you play statistically and you hear people that, oh, it's just go in the numbers and the cards. Oh, it's just a word problem or something like that. Yeah, yeah. Well, that's what my brother was really, really good at it because he's a math guy and he could do all that crap in his head and he would know and he know and he knew all the rules because they were all, you know, mathematical equations. Because there's 52 cards or there's 160 or whatever, I don't know. There's a bunch in of whatever's in the shoe and how much of the shoe has been pulled and how many times you've seen kings and aces, which means that you're not going to, you know, how many times you've seen face cards. You count the face cards when they come through.

29:29 You know, there's all sorts of things that you can do to limit it, you know, you know, and it's it's just crazy. It's just it's, I see it as something that's going to be wow, you know? A lot of people are going to be jobless. It's going to be crazy. Well. I think they're what I'm going to move too is for move because it's going to be questioned. No, I'm sorry. Go ahead. Four year university is going to become useless. It's crazy. Any sort of humanities degree that's already devalued by the system currently is going to become even more devalued. It's crazy. See, I think that I did not go and take astronomy to be an astronomer. I did not go and read take medieval history well then English the general to become most. Has now created this kind of resonance over society to those that paid the $200,000 or whatever it is to go and and get a degree, need a job from it 'cause it's such an exorbitant amount of debt compared to what it was in the 70s, eighties, 80s.

30:42 Yeah, it's it. Well, it's gone up significantly faster than anything. And, and people would argue that part of it is that student loans have been much larger and had less restraints on them and when you get them. So that meant that they were being given to people that they were unlikely to pay back. And when you got people that are going to be unlikely to pay back, that means that the interest rate has to be charged higher to make the pool. And then there's also like anybody can go to college and it's a big push to go to college when in fact, if, if you're, you should have a purpose. I think that I think learning more is in itself a good purpose.

31:33 I'm not disagreeing with that at all. Well, there's a reason why. But you shouldn't make, you shouldn't pay more than you make, you shouldn't pay more than you make to learn more unless you think it's going to be able to come back and help you in the future. And I think that, you know. Will you exercise everything you learn in college subconsciously? Much like everything right? Kind of add to your life anyway and every discussion you listen to. That's why the best writers are the people that have worked those entry level positions and have the widest breadth of experiences. But at the same time, there's a reason why I think in America that English majors have dropped between like 5% of overall college applicants and college graduates as well.

32:18 So it's crazy. Yeah, it's crazy to think that 5% compared to 1970 around 1980 where it was I think 15 to 20%. Yeah, it was big. Well, because as humanity it's it was like you could do that and you could be a lawyer, you could do that and you could be a writer. You could be, you can go in marketing after that and specialize because you learned a lot. You could go into sales because you you could, you would have the gift of gab. You know, there's just so many different things which it has. Helped me do that. Yeah, you know, Well, say, think about it, you know, I mean, what's his name? John Changed your life. Who was the Klonopin guy? Comedian John.

33:03 Prine, John Prine. John Prine, was he the one that did the comedy? Mullaney. Mullaney. That's what I'm thinking of. Yeah, 'cause he said, yeah, I went to school, I paid $250,000 for an English degree, and here I am doing comedy. What the hell? But he became a writer on SNL because he had a degree in English. So he had talent, he had an exercise and he and he and he made a joke about it, but you got to look at it and say that. I don't think this is a such thing as talent in stand up comedy. I think that he didn't, only it's like acting. It's all prep.

33:44 He didn't have a degree in math, OK. No. Or engineering. You know, there's probably not a a lot of writers out there that have engineering degrees or if there are, they're technical writers because they approach it in a different way. It's just you can see the mindset and the way that they approach things and problems. They're methodical. Whereas whack bags like me just, you know, we throw out the handful of pennies and see what falls on the ground and what falls in the trash. Exactly. I couldn't agree more. Yeah, no, it's it's going to change. Things are going to change. I don't know. There's going to be people that are going to hold on to. They are.

34:27 And I don't know, it's definitely going to see, we're going to see change in a form of if people realize that the what's going on in the world is a top down issue and not at anything else other than that. I don't know people. Will ever understand that, But the more that they do, the closer that they get, there's going to be a lot of violence. There's going to be a lot of violence. It's the thing I don't understand about AI. OK. We're going to go out here and we're going to create a tool that takes away checkers and grocery stores. So we have them and we have 100 grocery stores and these things cost $25,000 a piece and they got $1,000,000 in maintenance. And we're going to replace these people that make 14 bucks an hour.

35:13 We're going to get rid of eight of them. There's such a fallacy. And we got 14 machines. And it's like, OK, so all the checkers in your business, their salary, does it add up to the CEO? No, no, it. Doesn't so wouldn't, wouldn't you think that the smartest AI machine to be built would be Aceo Machine? I mean, why wouldn't anybody? I would be working on that. Because that why would he ever let that happen though? You know, like because the CE OS never. Because he who makes it owns everything. That's why. I mean, that to me is sort of like, you know, or I guess my monopoly attitude is going through, but I dealt with a lot of monopolies and all the businesses there were, they were, and they were, they were crushing, you know, and we would, we would have our little way and do our little thing.

36:09 And you know, but they, they, they could, you know, they could get us kicked out of the government. They could take the, they could not sell to us information that only they had. They could put delays on the information that they had. So our customer would have to go to them for certain things no matter what. You know, you see this over and over and over. And it's government information. It's, it's filed by companies. It's, it's free and it's publicly available. And they would, they would restrict it over and over and over. See it all the time. You know, you see it in court cases too. All that information is free. You got people suing each other over, shouldn't they get access to it?

36:50 I mean, that's why I'm an advocate for free law. I think free law.com is, you know, they are making it available for those that have nothing, but I don't know if those that have nothing that get in trouble are going to know anything about how to search or do define answers to these kinds of questions. Yeah, I don't know, maybe media literacy or not media literacy, but technical literacy like that will expand. It already is expanding to a wide wide. How to? How to ask if you want an outcome, how to, how to form the questions. I mean, that would be the class, right? Because you think about it, it's like just like you when you were saying I was doing the contract and I was asking you questions, you're like, no, no, I've looked for this and I look for weaknesses and I'm like, oh, I didn't think about that. That's kind of cool, you know, And it's like phrasing, right? Exactly the way that you put, we'll see. When we did it, we would know what was in the 500 page document on page 381 and it was entitled representations and warranties.

37:54 So we would want to search after the reps and warranties and before the legal dependent, you know whatever, whatever the ace was, we would search in between. And the way we would do that is say you know one and then within 60 of 1 and with and before 100 of another. So, and that was Boolean searching, which I think will be gone. And but I'm guessing that a lot of the I don't know how the algorithms are doing it and how they're learning, unless they're doing searching, getting answers, taking all the answers and then putting a waiting factor on each one and then coming out, you know, but but it's, it's it's interesting that when you do see them, the they come out with, depending upon what they're searching, they have a viewpoint.

38:52 I mean, artificial intelligence, when you search it, it comes out with a viewpoint. And I'm not sure that maybe that would be the tipper. That's I mean, that's when you think about it, you would want it, you would want heavily regulated because otherwise, if I own the, the any one of them, I'd want to be my viewpoint. I mean, I wouldn't, but I, I would want it to be a as central as possible, but as central as possible as it could. Is that what you want? I don't know, you know, that's a good question. It's it's it's an interesting time when you think about these kind of things and you look and you go like, well, so tax speeding ticket, I mean speeding tickets.

39:34 I just thought about that, you know, and we were talking about that patent law real estate. I want to see a lease. I need to write a lease for this. Well, the lease generation would. Be open. Yeah, Yeah. You've been analyzing leases. Yeah. Right. How much did? Probably do that now. Could you please show me all the all the per square footage in this building and all the leases signed and when they expire? Can you tell me how my landlord is going to screw me? But you, I mean, give me, give me a lease that's favorable to me as a renter or as a rentee or whatever you call it, a landlord.

40:20 Give me, I mean all these things, you know, real estate law, you know, what are the, what are the issues that come up? You know, I think that, you know, what the big thing will be what I can see the new area of law mistakes in AI. That'll be huge that I mean that will be editors for AI. That'll be a whole new boutique. We are the best we we got 400 million from blah, blah, blah. And you know, in five years, 400 million won't be anything, but it'll still be a lot for us. But I'm thinking that that will be huge, the certainly fraud, but also I think that the the mistakes and there'll be firms that go after firms for representing somebody and losing and using AI in any fashion and saying that they they use the shitty version or, you know, something like that. I mean, I can, I can see that happening. I don't, I don't, you know, and probably in the next couple of years much quicker, you know, that's if you look at it. Screenwriters have become, they've become editors for AI generated content and things like that. It's crazy.

41:35 Yeah, yeah. I think I, I mean it still comes back to me where it's going to be is you're going to ask a question and you're going to get an answer and you're going to log on to something and say good morning. How'd My Portfolio do today? It's doing well. Are there any any suggested changes you would make and it would already know my goals? I do this, this this. I want to. I got a kid in college, I got two, I've got 2 car payments, I got insurance, I got all the stuff like this. It would know my way what I make. Because think about all this, the more data it has, the better answers it's going to give.

42:17 However, the more data it has, the more stuff can be done to you if it's broken into. They could sell that data too as well. Data sales are going to go through the roof again. Continue Well, that's the reason they're building all the data centers is 'cause they want everything. Right now my tax information is in six or eight places maybe and and tax county erases 3 years back. I think they erased it, yeah. So, so the question is, is, does the IRS, is it online? Is it accessible? It's not supposed to be accessible. It's shared.

42:58 Who has it? Will they be able to sell it? You know, it's, I mean all of that stuff. And the more they sell it to 50 more people, that's fifty more sets of it out there. So yeah, I think we all need to change your name to one thing, you know, or everybody's name is going to be everybody's name is going to be one thing. No, exactly. That will work. I think that will work really well if we all go to one thing, because then we won't have to worry about any anybody copying stuff or oh, you're one thing. No, I'm one thing. Well, it's, it's a certain amount of an ability to mask who you are. But and another thing, I mean, I think that I think, I think, I mean a plausible, there's one plausible outcome. You look at they said, oh, well, they can coexist. And it's like, I don't think so.

43:53 I don't think that a natural predatory CE OS that look at companies in the growth and the opportunity to take over markets would in a capitalistic society are going to let that happen. No way. No way. They're not going to get they, they may code just until they can eat them, you know, and they're going to coexist with a few and some they're going to I can see I I mean, I would say and five years, two of the five that I mentioned are going to be wounded. Yeah. I can see that I, I just, I, I would say that flat out I would say they're going to be wounded and I think that they're going to they're going to. And once you're wounded, you know, there's blood on the floor.

44:44 We're coming for you unless you, unless there's blood on the floor because you're building something that's transformative because some people when they're, they, they don't really hit success until they've run themselves into the ground. You know, they use every asset and every dollar to do one thing and one thing and be the best at it. And, and then they use that to kill the market. But I mean, it's like you look at this is what these guys are doing. They're, you know, everywhere you look. I started just looking right now and I go, they all say they're higher, highly proprietary, but Thompson's back in is ChatGPT, Lexus is back in ChatGPT.

45:27 They use their large language model. They use it's highly customized. OK, so it's going to be, it's going to give different answers and different results, but you got to, I mean, wow, that that in itself tells me that. And, and I'm sure you know that I'm a fool about artificial intelligence, but I was a fool about the Internet too. And look for. That guy you right. Well, I watched the 23 companies sit there and look at me and say that's not real, that's not going to happen, it's not going to happen to us. And then I guess the thing I would say is, what are you going to do about it? Well, we're going to invest in something.

46:08 A lot of them didn't even do that. They said our customers love us. And it's like, no, they don't. You provide a good, you provide a service for a, a, a fee that allows them to do a great job and get along good. And that's what it's all about. You know, you give them answers at a cost. And if they can get those answers, better answers at a better, at a quicker turn around at a better cost, they'll do it. They'll do it in a minute. You know, I expect to see downward pressure on pricing at the end of 2026 in the legal market. That's what I'd expect to see. I, I, I'm going to see that you're probably not going to see it for a year and results 2026.

46:50 It's going to be flat. And then you're going to see it for 2027. Then it's going to be, it's going to be, you're going to start to see it in the quarterly numbers. That's where it's going to get squishy. But then it makes me wonder if they go to a, you know, we only do it semi annually now or something like that. Their, their SE CS pushing out this idea that they don't want to have quarterly reports anymore that it will be, it will be different, be hugely different. But I can't, I can't imagine it. I, I can't imagine that people are going to pay the same thing and pay for a bot and a back end of a bot. And, you know, I think that there's a lot of people out there that are that are big multinational companies that probably used to send legal work to large law firms that are going to stop doing a lot of it and just do it in house.

47:45 You know they're going to do what you did, you know? Be a lot cheaper, yeah, especially. And they're, they're going to get sued and they're going to lose some cases. So that's going to happen. People are going to go see it's all bad. And it's like. The overall cheaper though than what they were doing. Before well, no, it's like it's like, why does I mean, General Motors could build a car that would that the passengers would never get hurt, like 99.99% could not be hurt. They could make it much thicker. They can make it slower. They can make all these different things happen, but it's better to make give it a little risk. You know, think about the Ford Pinto. Only a couple 100 people going to die and we can pay that off. Only 400.

48:31 I mean, that's sad, but it, you know, it's an, it's a, it's an equation. When they decide to replace something or change something or do something, it's, it's like, and this is going to be wow. I kind of wonder if it's going to change the way people look at it. It's like you're going to have to, it's going to be, how do I find mistakes in people's work? I can see that as being a new field, you know, How do you find the mistakes? Their work that lasted all weekend now is in a blink of an eye. I think we're all done. The what? Teachers. Yeah. And correcting essays and things like that. Yeah, I. Don't even think we're going to write essays anymore though.

49:13 I will see. The thing is, if it stops, if you were just to stop right here, you'd only use everything that was done in the past, and the essays would be all based upon what happened the last five or ten years. And in five years from now, it wouldn't have knew. It would have You know you need. Modules. Let's see what you're saying. Right. You need, you need new, new stuff coming in and you need people to point out things cause a lot of teachers point out esoteric stuff that you wouldn't see that you wouldn't always do. They certainly point out the classics, their own bias, of course. Of course they have it. Yeah, but they have a list that they pick from and they have their own little bias that goes with it.

49:54 And it's like in any industry, when people teach about the stuff that's hard and good and searching and all that, they're going to have some basis of bias. But if you got half a brain, you know that you know, So you just you're. Educated. Yeah. Well, you don't have to be educated. You. Just have to be. Say education. You know what's funny though, is a lot of times education actually makes it more invisible. Yeah, your own it does. You can hide better, but I, but I, I knew when the foreman on the job was pissed off, I knew when we were doing something that it was because he liked it, you know, and that was before I was educated.

50:35 It was just like, hey, you read your boss, you read people where, where we all have that. It's a matter of if they do it and then they do it and it hurts you or it hurts other people or at the detriment of somebody that it's unfair to, you know, that's kind of the thing. Yeah, a lot of that, but I think it's going to change a lot of people. And I think it's really going to be today is what is it, February 4th, and this is going to come out tomorrow. So I think it'll be interesting because it'll still be in a hot time for legal Deck. All this happened this week. Well, no, that's right. Tomorrow's Thursday. It'll come out Friday, day after, Yeah, day after tomorrow.

51:15 So it'll come out and still be timely. It won't be dead. And hopefully a lot of my old buddies that used to listen to my rantings on legal tech and where it's going to go, we'll give a listen and we'll all talk about dementia patients instead. Sounds good to me. Thank you guys for listening. As always, check out our website. We do this every Friday. Thank you guys for listening. We wouldn't be here without you. We appreciate it. Bye bye.